Suggestion Spellweaver needs change

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by rogue07, Jun 4, 2017.

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  1. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    I posted this on a thread that I know is going into the archives so I wanted to bring it here.
    I know the majority will jump to disagree, purely because they want their classes to not get nerfed (which is not what I'm asking for) or feel as if their classes just fell under the ranks of spellweavers all of a sudden.

    But as a SW main, I'm not at all pleased with the mechanics involved. The game severely lacks in teamplay mechanics, only last hit gets healing orb, and reviving teammates cost andermant unless you already have spirit stones on your person, no healer class and healing potions are for andermant --- also, note the fact that bosses can't be taunted, so no matter how beefy a DK you have with you, the boss will still come after you if your dps is higher.

    Lets start with pvp:
    rangers are the one class that kills me as a mage with non stop quick shot spam. as a matter of fact, it doesn't usually take more than 3-4 hits without crits to kill a mage with that.
    the eagle follows you everywhere, and 3 dogs that heal you with damage dealt, whereas mages have ZERO healing. adrenaline for fast movement, dive skill to jump around and blade dance for when the other 2 are on cool down.

    idk how thats not OP. sure destruction can kill you, thats the only thing that mages really got going for them against rangers, miss that and 2 quick shots or 1 quick and 1 precision shot kills you.

    frozen sphere needs a change, the only people you can hit with the full damage are other mages and then DKs. whereas a DK wouldnt lose more than 1/4 of his hp, the mage would lose around 1/2 at most if all 3 hits registered and were crits. and don't jump to mention the 10 mana gain, you can't do anything with 10 mana -_- the spell itself costs 5 times as much mana. it's purely for killing mobs.

    singularity is easily avoided by all jump or location changing skills.

    mages have cast times, compared to all classes mages have the longest cast times for all skills. fireball spam is possible, but where 1 fireball is cast and flies from A to B, a ranger would've shot 2-3 quick shots from A to B in the same time frame.

    lets not pretend marking is not op either, its an endless movement speed reduction, and almost every skill does DOUBLE damage when marked, as if moving at turtle speed wasnt crippling enough, nearly every ranger skill marks now, the damned eagle that follows you around and sometimes in a darker map with the low visibility you can't even see it until you've lost 1/3 of your hp and now you're stunned for 2 seconds, you get out of stun alive and then the net hits you and you're stunned again. the amount of stuns and slows rangers can unleash is ridiculous, especially considering that you're marked for 100% extra damage to be recieved with the next hit.

    lets consider this simple fact too, mages are supposed to be crowd control, but mages have literally 1 stun and thats not even guaranteed, no one but a DK would get close enough for frost nova to hit, and then there's a 1 sec pvp freeze that is frost winds. the guardian is an automated potato gun. once more mages have no healing. lightning has a cast time and a strike time, easily avoided. destruction has a long cast time, easily avoided again. meteor, no one probably even uses this in pvp bec of the lack of effectiveness. magic missile is a joke. fireball, slow flight time and a cast time, 50-50 chance of hitting against a semi decent player.

    in pvp, mages only stand a chance against other mages and then DKs by running around the entire time.
    steam mechs also have stun and healing capabalities, turrets are pretty damned effective, guaranteed stun, and then iron dwarf can just chase you and wreck you.

    mages are the ones that are in need of a buff or a rework, severely under powered - having big numbers on skill descriptions doesn't mean the skill is OP, not in pvp. and considering how little the game has focused on increasing the teamplay system, mages being unable to heal at all, makes the game relatively difficult too to solo.

    now looking at PVE:
    whereas i see rangers of the same level yet worse equipment and stats soloing bosses, mages are more often than not incapable of doing so.
    BP has shown no interest in making potions available for coins, although mages desperately need it.
    did i forget to mention the fact that mages have the least hp out of all classes for some reason?
    seriously what's the trade off? what are mages getting thats so great that they need an hp nerf for?
    all other classes, and having tested them myself, are just as capable of wiping out mobs solo as mages.
    taunt doesnt work on bosses so guardian is useless, singularity doesnt slow bosses so they just walk out of it.
    with your cast times for every spell, your running is easily interrupted and you end up getting hit - and until the boss dies, you have no way to regain that lost hp unless by running around and thats is ONLY IF you're faster than the boss.

    i regret having mained a mage, with my love for mages in all MMORPGs i chose mage, and ended up realizing drakensang mages are an embarrasment to the mages. i love playing glass cannon classes, but not when its a glass potato cannon. should've chosen a ranger or dk or a dwarf. those three classes when i tried them out, i cleared dungeons in 1/3 the time that it took me on my mage. and in pvp, i've won more often than not.

    it's just that no one wants their classes to get nerfed, but BP doesnt give a crap about mages anymore although they desperately need a buff.

    suggestion:
    frozen sphere mechanics, either turning it into an ice nova (the type ice leader mobs use)
    OR
    making it freeze the target that it hits when it explodes about, 0.25 second freeze in PVP and 0.5 sec freeze in PVE is understandable, since it can hit twice and has no cool down.
    and more importantly a freaking means to heal... and dont say magic missile 3rd upgrade because thats a pathetic joke, more along the lines of insult to injury.
    perhaps summoning guardian heals you for 10% total hp? its reasonable because mechs can use steam conductor to heal a lot and has no cool down, dk can heal a lot with their skills and rangers can go from 5% to 100% hp from the dogs.

    it doesn't have to be my exact suggestions, as long as mages get at least 1 sure long range stun/freeze so they actually stand a chance against rangers and mechs.
    and a more practical means to heal that is on par with other classes' survivability.


    this thread will probably get debunked instantly and go straight to the archives... no one cares about SW anymore :/ and if SW becomes practical, their OP classes wont feel as OP anymore... mages are the ones that have to sit in their corners crying and chugging hp potions ._.

    i get the feeling that in the end, after all the time and effort I've put into my mage, I'll just end up having to switch my main to my DK or Ranger.
    steam mechs aren't very good looking though lol
     
  2. Arx_X

    Arx_X Advanced

    I somehow understand what you mean with this wall of text (i did manage to read 90% of it). SW got a bit left behind with all this "ballancing" and updates going on lately. I wouldn't say pvp is the problem, but rather pve. your complaint about frozen sphere is unjustified imo.. it deals mass dmg to mass groups so it's the perfect ool for faming up to end bosses.

    I recently started playing my SW again, which i had left at 50 and it is a lot of fun, altho getting ok gear seems a pain atm (got all Q's up to q8 done so the option of farming those is still open). I think you would be pleased with Q4 set if you get your hands on a decent one 8it's my goal for now)
     
  3. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    The only part of your entire argument that I can agree with is that mages have been overlooked lately. The rest is simply class bashing which is the new normal in DSO.

    First, no class in an of itself is OP.

    Yes, dwarfs are very easy to build and can do things that others cannot early on, but that still doesn't make them OP all by itself.

    Rangers, Dwarfs, DK's and even Mages can become OP with loads of money or tons of time invested. However, creating any of them will not make you instantly OP.

    If you honestly believe that starting one automatically makes you OP, then I invite you to join the ghost server and prove me wrong.

    Create a Ranger and I'll show you that they are not OP.
    Create a DK and I'll show you that they aren't OP either.
    Create a dwarf and I'll show you despite the hype they aren't automatically OP either.

    If you want to be OP, either spend the years required or open up your wallet and become so.

    Complaining that every other class except yours is OP is a very tired argument that has been proven wrong time and time again.
     
    rance_1983 likes this.
  4. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    it is decent for dealing with mobs i do admit, ever since i unlocked it, I've been able to farm mobs for hours just using my mouse and not even touching the keyboard (spamming left mouse sphere)

    but truth be told, its extremely hard to land the explosion on a lot of mobs past level 50, since the flight damage is just 60% + 60% i guess thats why i wanted it to turn into an easier to aim spell; ice nova from leader monsters.

    maybe cutback the mana gain from 10 to 5 per mob, because now you're guaranteed to capture the entire mob if you place it properly.

    as fun as it is playing mage only due to spell diversities, we honestly need a practical means to heal.

    pvp mechanics... idk if at this point it can ever be fixed, majority of us do pvp just for the dailies anyway i guess, but a ranged stun/freeze really give spellweavers a better equal standing point to the rest of the classes.

    someone probably gonna jump to say "its all about skill"
    going by that, a naked SW could win against a decked out dwarf, just using nothing more than magic missile. but with similarly skilled players with similar gear, on an equal scale, SW just falls short.


    p.s. i suck at keeping things short, sorry.


    ---------MERGED-------


    this is what i stated in my most recent post. skill and general lack of balance are two different things entirely. as i have stated, i tested all classes, and i was not bashing them, thats just you seeing it that way.

    SM, DK, Ranger - these 3 classes are capable of doing practically everything better than a SW is. the only thing SW does that those classes arent able to do is "singularity" the armor break potential of singularity is amazing, i admit, albeit cant always be used.

    i wasn't bashing the classes, i was mentioning just how much SW falls short.
    most importantly the healing.
    less importantly - for pvp, the stunning.

    end bosses:
    SM being able to clear an end boss within a minute,
    DK functioning as it was meant to; tanking a boss and surviving it solo,
    Rangers can't be caught, but its strange how they can actually slow bosses who are naturally immune to slowing effects, by marking them, making "kiting" that much easier.
    SW, cast times are pretty harsh, the damage doesn't always live up to it, i keep repeating this - but with the lack of hp and still unable to heal, so usually takes a good while of running around to actually solo a boss.

    normal pve:
    DK has some good aoe potential with healing, which works as intended
    SM can align two fire turrets in a position where you can kite a mob and clear it in 3 seconds no matter how large a mob --- or just pop two well positioned tesla turrets.
    Ranger if using mark properly, once an entire mob is marked, just one precision shot can clear the entire line dealing 2 times as much damage --- or just use scatter shot. though it's strange how the ranger description says they're not good at dealing with hordes, but can do it just as well as mages - whose strong point is crowd control.
    SW has decent mob clearing skills, although from experience, not as quick as the rest, but im not complaining at all about mob handling capabilities, it's diverse and that's fun.

    balancing is very important, ranger quick shot has the fastest projectile speed in the game, and yet the damage it deals, the passive debuff that it inflicts, what do spellweavers have to keep up with that?

    in pvp you cant keep distance because quick shot has the same range as your max range, can't go close because blade dance or eagle or hunting pack, can't run around much because hunting trap.
    yes you can mind control a wolf with good enough reflexes.

    of all the summonables, guardian is probably the most lacking of all. only for PVE, and that only for pre-end mobs.

    -------MERGED----------

    ONCE AGAIN - I'm not bashing a class, as a gamer I enjoy the diversity and I like all these classes.
    i just want spellweavers to be brought up into the current META, that is all.

    I have to say though.. the specific distance requirement for frozen sphere makes it a bit difficult to use (as fun as it is) as compared to skills of other classes, not needing any specific distance at all. frozen sphere is strong, but i honestly think it needs a revamp.
    don't call me out as if i have no skill, that's not the point here - sure I can get myself into the proper position for it.

    but lets consider this for example,
    in a wilderness area: while im kiting a mob and getting it in place for a sphere, any other class can just come up, look at the nice mob i got going there, and steal it easily.
    DK just charges in and uses mighty (forgot the name :/)
    SM can look at my movements and use fire or tesla and/or that shrapnel or whatever skill whose name i also dont remember ._.
    ranger does two scatter shots and there goes my mob
     
  5. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    First, use the edit button, don't create new posts over and over. That drives the mods nuts.

    Next, coming up with suggestions is nice and all, but the Dev's ignore 99.9% of all player suggestions and on the extremely rare occasion that they do listen, they mess it up and make it worse.

    In the future if you want to make suggestions, ask yourself the following.

    1. Does your idea improve revenue for DSO? (if yes, continue with thought)
    2. Does your idea further help the twinks? (if yes, continue with thought)
    3. Does your idea leave plenty of room for additional bugs? (if yes, continue with thought)
    4. Does your idea leave plenty of room for interpretation so that it can be messed up by devs? (if yes, continue with thought)

    If it doesn't do one or most importantly all of the above, shelve the idea. Anything that truly benefits the players alone stands very little chance of consideration.

    Now you might be tempted to believe that your ideas are so good that they will have to be implemented, but if you search through the forum for all the thousands upon thousands of commonsense ideas that have been totally ignored over the years, you'll see what I mean.
     
  6. Shine2

    Shine2 Board Administrator Team Drakensang Online

    Hello there, rogue07 , I have merged your posts for you this time - would you please be so kind and use EDIT function and avoid writing consecutive posts in future, as it is against our Forum's rules, please? Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  7. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    sorry, kinda new to the forums.
    will keep that in mind from now!
     
    Shine2 likes this.
  8. Grasschewer

    Grasschewer Forum Apprentice

    Well yes I think the SW has been left behind.
    Clearing old/easy maps in PVE is the only thing a SW really does well.
    PVP is a joke, best to find a 2H and go for one shot to just break PVP more.
    Post lv50 it gets easier in part as health to the Wazoo means you can use Pots :).

    SW is a joke against End Boss as health and speed are sorely lacking.
    Yes its good that an End Boss is tough but soloing them that require an item is wrong!!!!!
    wait
    Wrong only until you get stronger/used to it.

    Yes the rangers arrows do MASSIVE dmg to a SW, but so do PVE skeletons and toltac.

    An SW can work but yes it requires more effort to make it happen.
    Yes there is no heal and health spheres provide less than one hit from a Boss.



    PS: After last update the Guardian got better although I havn't gone fire skills to see if...........
     
  9. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Count Count

    For all those of you that say Spellweavers just want everyone nerfed, it's just not so. That frozen sphere is OP, well that's just not so either.

    I've got Frozen Sphere on a key and 70% of the time that "explosion" completely misses and does nothing. Thus it takes 50 Mana (half of normal total amount) and only does 50% base damage to the hords on one side (of 8) that you are battling -Point-Blank-Range-. The rest of the distance monsters always stop too far away, so it doesn't get there. I keep trying FS, but it keeps disapointing. For the use it is, it really should be dropped down to 30 Mana and made have a minimum (half now)/maximum (double now) distance and explode on contact between min and max.

    The Spellweaver really just needs one fix: Chain Lightning needs to be a real chain and made a little more powerful.
    ∙ Add another link: 1 > 2 > 4 (no repeats, so up from max 3 monsters to max 7 monsters)(I've hit 10+ monsters with DK rageful swing, which does 100% base to EACH monster hit, and it also builds rage).
    ∙ Up the damage from 49% (and the +33% for consecutive is only 12% more base - thus 61% base to only 3 monsters) to... say... 75% base, which with the +33% make second hit be 100% base.
    Put those two together and then you will have a mob capable attack in line with what the other classes can do.

    I've got pictures and stats of my SW and DK at level 45 or 46 and they have close to the same base damage. If the crowd was 1-3 creatures, it took the same amount of time to clear. However, double the crowd and it takes the SW 3-4 times as long to clear as compared to the DK. At 4 times the crowd size (10-12), the DK is still nearly the same amount of time as the 1-3 crowd, but the SW takes 6 times as long to kill the same number of creatures.

    The point is, SWs are not good at crowd control at all compared to other classes. You need all the SW skills due to the cooldown times. I can play the DK and mostly use 3 skills and leave the same level, similarly equipped SW in the wake wondering why he didn't get to kill hardly anything.
     
  10. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    i wonder if this is normal, but in pvp just now i got killed one hit with charge from a DK, dealing 28,000 damage to me.
    was that a hack or is that normal? he just kept using the charge skill all over the place, whenever it hit it dealt 28k or more...
     
  11. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    Normal. Probably 2H or high crit, and especially if both.

    Was he using the herald set or bearach set? and one of those with the grimmag set?
     
  12. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    Also the repeated charge comes from no cool down vs. a bleeding enemy.

    Luck be with ye,
    Mikey,
    Tegan
     
  13. Arx_X

    Arx_X Advanced

    EDIT how else can the enemy be bleeding if it's 1 charge kills?

    @Shine2 - why was a perfectly natural, physiological phenomenon edited out??? :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  14. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    That's why I asked if you could tell if he was using grimmag's set. The adornment "Increases Charge damage by 20,00%" and the completed set "Turns Charge into a fiery rush attack that ignites all affected targets. Ignited enemies suffer 75% of your base damage as fire damage for 3 seconds." That, combined with the 3 point talent that "Increases "Charge" damage by 75%" can result in some very powerful one shots at extended range, and you'll almost certainly take all the charge talents if you have grimmag's set.
     
  15. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    Aye. Confirmed.

    Give it a month or two after upcoming dragan event.. you'll be facing 2H DK that capable of doing over 20k crit hit with Ragefull swing. I guess the crit charge goes to over 35k.

    Pve wise I agree on lack of healing for SW. The magic missile healing does help just for a bit after a kill. Wish there is another way..
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  16. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    i was not hit once prior to charge, and yes i know how it works, ty :)

    I'm not sure tbh, all i saw was the fire demon outfit on him and i was too busy running for my life lol.
    i smacked him around a lot, but DK having as much hp as they do, just brushed it off and one hit me.

    anyhow, seems with all the responses, this is completely normal.
    would be nice if i could crit a 30k fireball too in pvp :D


    yeah watching my ranger, SM and DK friends not die once in PW or Deeps of demise, and then me dying once or twice every time the lightning mini boss or ice goblin appears was kinda sad.
    would be nice if i could regen some hp mid battle too.

    someone up there said this whole suggestion thing was hopeless, and i get the feeling he was right ._.


    its all about the "devs' vision for the game" and in that vision SWs are the comedic relief lol


    (not sure if i should use editting feature for this, still unsure on how many posts i should make per page :/)


    On a side note, I still have no clue how I'm going to make up for the lack of crit % past level 50. originally, I've kept me left side items full crit and right side all defense, and weapon half crit half damage %.

    but ever since i hit 50, i have not seen one item with actual critical hate rate values. I'm still hoping the miracle item is out there... I need my crit D:
    or I'll just be throwing magic imbued pellets all over the place
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  17. Shine2

    Shine2 Board Administrator Team Drakensang Online

    Hi there rogue07 , you are doing just fine and it is all right to write few posts on one page as long as they are not written one after another. Here- tell you what -see when you find few spare minutes why don't you have a look at some useful info in OUR Forum Netiquette thread please?

    Kind regards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
    rogue07 likes this.
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    rogue07

    Can you post one screenshot of your stats and your gear here in this thread?
     
  19. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    You eventualy might :) give your SW a time.

    Sad but true. Even the very best & critical suggestion according to majority of this forum members being ignored.

    But we have something to talk about :D
     
  20. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    In addition to my previous suggestions on getting the dev's to listen to any possible changes, let me add these.

    1. Make sure that any suggestion adds even more mind numbing grind to the game.

    2. Make sure that your suggestion ruins past gear sets or better yet removes them from being useful at all.

    3. Make sure that your suggestion also limits or eliminates the drop rate of something we all use and want.

    4. Most importantly make sure that your suggestion upsets at least 75% of the players. If you can manage to make them mad enough to quit the game altogether, the better the odds of your suggestion being taken seriously.

    These are the things (and the ones I listed earlier) that the developers do already, so if you're going to get your idea added, it needs to negatively affect the largest percentage of players possible. Anything else will simply be ignored.

    Now just for fun, go through the archives and read the 18 months of "official" feedback that players gave for the new updated moon events. Every single thing suggested was completely ignored. This one is the most fun, but essentially you could read any official feedback thread on this forum and get the same results.

    Not all is lost though.

    Sometimes, after several years of complaining the dev's do occasionally throw us a bone. Of course these bones come with new bugs that rarely get fixed, other things that negatively affect players to a large degree, or they mess it so bad that we wish that we had never asked for it.
     
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