Attack Speed versus Damage

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by cdeepal, Feb 28, 2015.

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  1. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Hello,

    I found two blue wands, one with 8.9% and 8.1% = 17% faster attack speed.
    Another with +4 damage and +4 damage (+8 damage total)
    The wand with the +8 dmg has a higher base damage and a higher throughput (DPS)

    My question is, for PvP should I go with the attack speed wand or the +damage wand?

    Also, I have a green boots with +5.3% speed, and a pink boots with +38 Armor, +22 resists and +24 hit points. Should I wear the green boots or the pink boots for PvP?
     
  2. Darwarren

    Darwarren Count Count

    You'll need to adapt your style with either choice.
    Why not try each for a few days to see how they fit?
     
  3. thedarkestlight

    thedarkestlight Advanced

    I'll say for pvp you should go with the attack speed wand or better try to find 1 with a mix of dmg. and speed.
    I use the new moon wand in pvp just because it gives a bit dmg. and decent crit. hit(mine is 52% with a ball),but i really miss the speed many times during the match.

    Also tell the no. of gemslots on each wand because that is an important factor.

    Also what skill you have at pvp lvl 20? attack speed or run speed?

    I'll say go with the speed boots and become strong so you can also eventually capture the flag in 5v5.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    You should probably pay attention to whether you can reach the next speed breakpoint (the actual effect of speed is divided into certain breakpoints which depend on the skill you use) with your speed wand.

    relevant speed breakpoints would be:
    1,31
    1,42
    1,58
    1,77
    2,00
    2,31

    So let's say you have an attack speed of 1,77 with your damage wand and an attack speed of 1,91 with your speed wand --> due to speed breakpoints you wouldnt benefit from having more speed.
     
  5. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Wow. This is a lot of good information. Never knew about some of this.
    So, the damage wand has 3 slots and the speed wand has 2 slots, but I don't have +damage gems yet :(, so it doesn't really matter at this point :p

    With speed wand my attack speed is 1.29 and with damage wand it is 1.10, so does it mean that the speed wand does not matter and doesn't really give me more speed? That would suck, but makes my decision easier :D

    I guess the boots actually makes a difference, I seem to evade DKs much easier now and in some of the matches I was able to kill them even without getting a single hit :D

    I have the Light-Footed skill for Fame 20 Talent and I am at Fame 21 now.

    Oh, btw, are there speed break points before 1,31?
    And is this somewhere in a Wiki page?

    --MERGED--

    I did an experiment with my two wands and a white two-handed wand and the results were as follows:

    During 1 minute of time with the Magic Missile attack:

    Speed wand with 1.29 attacks/sec did 116 shots
    Damage wand with 1.10 attacks/sec did 100 shots
    Two-handed staff with 0.92 attacks/sec did 86 shots
     
    Last edited by moderator: Mar 1, 2015
  6. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    Hi

    First of all, as I mentioned before speed breakpoints depend on the skill you use, since different skills have different animation frames. The breakpoints listed above apply to all attacks with an animation frame of 15 (magic missile, chain lightning, hunting arrow, ice missile).

    There is another breakpoint before 1,31, which would be 1,20. the others before this one I don't know, because it's rather unusual to play with such a low speed :p

    Note: your base speed is not 1,00 as shown in your character sheet(without weapon), your base speed is actually multiplied by the skill's animation speed, in case of magic missile your actual speed is 1,58 and so on.

    Your experiment is right, that's the way how you test this properly.
    I and some friends in the german section have created a topic in our forum for this kind of research, I don't know if other communities know about this "speed issues" and have this somewhere in their wiki.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
    DesertKoala and thebearreturns like this.
  7. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    Too choose what wand you will use multiply you total hits per minute by the damage for each skill. This will tell you what wand you should choose.

    Please note the Lightning strike and other skills do not take speed into account so the higher wand would win that also.
     
    Darwarren likes this.
  8. Tilwin90

    Tilwin90 Padavan

    They do! Attacking faster with magic missiles while you have Mysterious Charge boosts your mana faster, leading to more frequent Lightning Strikes.

    Ultimately it's a matter of balance between speed and damage. Let's make some simple math...
    You are doing 500 damage at 1.00 speed. You have to choose between damage and speed. The question is what would be the equivalent between the two? If you were to increase speed by 10%, that would mean 500x1.0=500 DPS, vs. 500x1.1=550 DPS. This means that for 500 damage, 10% attack speed is the rough equivalent of 50 damage.
    On the other hand if you are starting from 250 damage, then 250x1.0=250 DPS vs. 250x1.1=275 DPS. Here 10% attack speed is the rough equivalent of 25 damage.

    This approach is a bit naive indeed because it doesn't consider the fact that you are not going to be doing constant lightning strikes or fireballs. Mysterious Charge magic missiles restore 5 mana per hit, but to that mana you also need to include your innate mana regeneration. The slower you attack, the higher the impact of the native mana regeneration.
    I noticed that at my current attack speed it usually takes 6 magic missiles before I can throw 2 lightning strikes. It would be a good experiment to compare at various attack speeds and notice the difference. This also takes into consideration your reaction speed of course.

    But ultimately I would say the "raw" approximation given above with respect to the basic damage DPS is good enough to give you an idea when you want more speed and when you want more damage. Don't forget +% damage boosts the damage of any crystals in your weapon, while +damage does not. On the other hand +% damage does not upgrade when you upgrade your weapon, while +damage does.
     
    silverseas likes this.
  9. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador


    Please note there are breaking points for speed i.e. If you increase your speed by 1% there is absolutely no change in the number of attacks per minute. This is where you would have to count each attack for a said amount of time. Also if you add speed at the same damage then yes it will be higher. The OP is speed vrs damage. What is the trade off. So change it slightly. 1.10 speed with 450 - 368 or 1.00 speed with 500-400 damage. Raw numbers put the 1.00 higher damage but the speed will help skills go off faster.

    http://dsopage.bplaced.net/
     
  10. Guitarman

    Guitarman Forum Master

    Regarding this is the breakpoints are the different break points for other classes ?
     
  11. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    They seem to be the same for the archer according to tests and other threads on the forums. Not sure about other classes.

    Also, there looks to be another breakpoint between 2.01 and 2.31. My friend is using 2.17 or so, and says it's faster and I was seeing noticeable visual difference.

    Also, 1.77 looks to be not enough in same cases, might depend on the digit after comma. 1.78 would be a safe number.
     
  12. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    I am sure updates they might add more breaking points and possibly change a few. Since there is no official release of this, but only observational info; I am sure it's subject to change.
     
  13. ULTRAPEINLICH

    ULTRAPEINLICH Forum Duke

    Hi, sorry for the late reply, i dont visit the english forums frequently

    Breakpoints differ from skills to skills not from classes to classes. The breakpoints mentioned above relate to skills with an animation frame of 15, which are:
    hunting arrow (ranger)
    chain lightining (mage)
    magic missile (mage)
    ice missile (mage)
    multishot (ranger)

    there are different breakpoints for skills with an animation frame of 20, which are:
    fireball (mage)
    precision shot (ranger)
    deadly blow (ranger)

    breakpoints for these skills:
    1.22
    1.29
    1.38
    1.49
    1.6
    1.74
    1.91
    2.11
    2.36
    2.67
    3.01

    I've written a speedbreakpoint guide in the german subforum, i'm planning on translating it into english and publish it in a dso facebook page and/or here.
     
    draco994 and MegaNuker like this.
  14. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    You rock dude.
     
  15. Snede

    Snede Forum Apprentice

    Thank for great info!!
    Do you know the next breakpoints after 2,31 (my current speed is 2,58)?
    And how did you identify them?
     
    draco994 likes this.
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